GIFTED STUDENT PROGRAMS
lausd.net has its own Gifted and Talented section (under Offices), but for more specific local commentary check out:
SCHOOLS SEEKING PARENTS, Comment #4 re: San Jose Gifted.
70 Responses to "GIFTED STUDENT PROGRAMS"
October 23, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I read your post. I live nearby and would like my 11 month old daughter to attend your school when she reaches the proper age. Do you have any advice on what I need to do now to prepare her for the test she must take to qualify?
October 23, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Michael:
Thanks for the interest in our school!
The “test” is one of several IQ tests administered by the Psychological Services branch of the LAUSD. Generally kids are referred for testing at the end of second grade but are, occasionally (if parents have enough chutzpah), tested earlier. (The reason for the delay is that these tests were designed for older kids and younger ones don’t always test accurately and can fail more readily than at later ages.) The psychologist picks the test to be taken based upon your child’s age and other factors. So first off, you don’t always know which specific test your child will get. And IQ tests are intended to test natural intelligence, things like decision making, visual/spatial abilities, cognitive reasoning, and an array of other psychobabble terms. It isn’t something to really study for. (It would be a little like studying for a Cosmo Magazine personality test — you are who you are…)
But second off… your darling daughter is only 11 months old! How do you know the school will be a good fit for her still-developing temperament and personality? How do any of us know what the school will be like in five years, when she is old enough to attend? Grab your favorite beverage of choice and RELAX. You have plenty of time. The best way to prepare her is to love her, cuddle her, read to her, and explore the world with her. If she is gifted material, this will become apparent as she enters school reading Chaucer and working in binary numbers. You and the teachers will make the obvious decisions to have her tested when the time is right. Your child will lead you in the right direction… And at that point, you can look at the full option of schools to find the one that best fits her and her needs. Yes, I hope that is our highly gifted magnet school but… keep all your options open! There is no “one-size-fits-all” school.
Best of luck!
October 24, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Do you know if children are tested only at a teacher’s request or if parents can request it? My local school has a gifted magnet as well, and I’ve heard good things about, but I’ve heard conflicting information about the testing procedures. What can I say, I’m an info junky!
October 27, 2008 at 4:22 am
Hey Amy! Thanks for writing. We have a small problem. You are an info junkie and… the LAUSD gives out conflicting info. So you have fun wrestling with that! (We find wine helps.) I’ll share what I know but be aware that it changes daily depending to which LAUSD employee or school you ask!
The short answer is… parents can request it. The request isn’t taken as strongly as one from the teacher or GATE coordinator, but they can make the request.
Here’s the deal on testing. Schools don’t always WANT to test your child so make the process as clear as mud. Now why ever would a school not want to assist its students and their parents in finding out their true potential? Well… 1) As mentioned earlier on this site, the tests are really aimed at older kids and younger ones can have a higher “false negative” result, e.g. fail when they may not if they were older. So there is an attempt to persuade you to wait until the child is older. 2) It COSTS the local school to test and comes out of their budget (so, as always, the almighty dollar is important). Some schools test away, because each child identified means a few extra bucks from the State each year, and other schools living on their last dime don’t see testing as much of a priority. 3) If your child is older and at their school and doing well, the school may not want to lose this shining star… and her accompanying high test scores. Why would they want to help you take Suzie High IQ out of their school? (To be fair, I do not think there is malicious evil intent but it resides in the subconcious of every administrator who has to sign off and approve the testing… )
The “norm” in the LAUSD is that the teachers identify kids for testing in second grade and they are pulled out and tested at the end of second grade. Now… given that some of the gifted and highly gifted magnets start in first grade… obviously they will and do test earlier. I can tell you that my child was tested in first grade, at our request (with support from her teacher). It is a harder battle to justify as a parent and helps a LOT to have the teacher’s support and backing. But it CAN happen. Submit a request in writing to the school asking for your child to be tested.
A few cautions before people request testing lightly: first, the LAUSD can take a LONG time to test. There aren’t enough psychologists for this huge system. Sometimes it can happen very quickly after request and I’ve also heard of people waiting over a year. So don’t assume if you ask today, it will happen tomorrow. If you are trying to hit a big deadline, request testing early. Again, having a teacher or GATE coordinator backing you up helps a lot to move the system along. And being an obnoxious, pushy parent who calls regularly works, too! 
And again… testing early can backfire. If Suzie High IQ doesn’t “pass” the way you wanted, it can almost take an Act of God (and lots of time) to get her tested again… for all the reasons above. They will occasionally retest, but again, it is a tough sell as your child is eating up financial resources another child might use. Tread carefully and only request testing when the teacher and you truly feel it is merited.
Good luck!
October 29, 2008 at 4:24 am
Postscript (P.S.) to the above post — younger children do not have to be formally tested to apply to gifted magnets. As long as their teacher signs off saying that they meet the following criteria: http://echoices.lausd.net/Magnet/GiftedCriteria.aspx then his/her CHOICES application to a gifted magnet will be approved and go forth in the process.
Basically if you apply for a young child who is already in LAUSD to attend a gifted magnet thru the CHOICES process, they will send a form to his/her teacher asking if s/he meets the criteria. So if you are interested in applying to a gifted magnet and your child is in K-2, I’d talk to his/her teacher to ask about that.
November 5, 2008 at 8:18 pm
I can attest to the wait, and that you can get tested earlier if you’re persistent. We asked our daughter be tested at the end of kindergarten, and pushed again in first grade. She was tested at the end of first grade.
If the school is scheduled for testing I’m sure there are kids who have waited longer and some kids who just were placed on the list–somewhat like someone pulling up to a light and waiting for the green and another guy pulling up just as it turns green. It is a function of limited resources.
One of the reasons they do wait until second grade is, as Rebekka states, that if a child gets shy and doesn’t test well, they don’t have the resources to retest. Sadly it happens more than people want to admit. We all know how bright our kids are, but if they clam up during the test, it’s a test wasted.
And in case someone wants to “help out” the district and pay for a test, that won’t work either. This is the egalitarian LAUSD at its frustratiing best. So if you’re sure, request testing early, and often, and do it as nicely as you can. The person organizing the testing/coordinating the kids understands your frustration, but can’t move one kid up over another.
November 6, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Thanks for all the info! Our local gifted magnet doesn’t start until 2nd grade, anyway! And to tell the truth, I feel a bit weird presuming my child is “gifted”. I mean, yeah, I think she’s brilliant, but don’t all parents think their kids a super smart? Anyway, this is all good to know. And it helps that I’m not afraid of the regular neighborhood school, or at least I’m not right now!
November 9, 2008 at 3:52 pm
There is a lot of – well, politics at play in how schools approach meeting the needs of students. The state funds allocated to schools for Gifted and Talented Education (GATE)are particularly vulnerable to abuse. EVERY school has “gifted” students – as you probably know, there are multiple dimensions to identifying such students – and the process of doing so isn’t a priority in LAUSD.
LAUSD schools are required to design and submit plans detailing how they will meet the needs of GATE students. Although each such student generates only about $50 (is it $40 this year?), these plans are public documents, they are submitted around the middle of October each year and they require parent input. In addition to the GATE coordinator, each school is supposed to have a parent rep – a GATE parent rep – and this year, for the first time that I can remember, each school’s GATE plan was required to have been approved and signed by the GATE parent rep. If this is news to you, ask your school administrator about it; if, as I suspect, some schools submitted plans without inviting parent input…hmmm… who signed off on the plan?
I want to be sure that everyone knows there will be a district-wide meeting of GATE parent reps on November 19, 2008. Check with your school for details. Local District 3’s Parent Community Advisory Council will also be taking a closer look this year at our GATE, School for Advanced Studies (SAS) and Gifted/HG Magnet programs along with discussing how to provide parents with more choice.
Bill Ring
Candidate, Los Angeles City Board of Education, District #4
Organizer, Local District 3 Parent Community Advisory Council
Director, TransParent
November 12, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Correction to the post above: the district meeting of GATE parent reps will be held Friday, November 14 from 5:00 to 6:30PM.
Bill Ring
Candidate, Los Angeles City Board of Education, District #4
Organizer, Local District 3 Parent Community Advisory Council
Director, TransParent
November 14, 2008 at 8:54 pm
We suspect our son may be highly gifted and are desperately seeking a good kindergarten for him. Aside from moving to the Carpenter school district and Mirman, are there any good choices out there that would truly serve the needs of a highly gifted student?
November 16, 2008 at 6:04 pm
We are experiencing acute disappointment with our daughter’s Gifted Magnet school, and we are seriously considering re-enrolling her in our neighborhood school.
She is a second-grader. Her teacher and magnet coordinator actively DISCOURAGE her from expanding her work and encourage her to cap her thinking. Teaching to the test has overtaken any thinking outside of the test.
One homework assignment with vocabulary words asked the students to look up “bristled” in their school-provided dictionary. The definition, “when you feel bristly,” prompted our child to point out to her teacher that the definition was lacking. The response from the teacher (with my husband present) was that they were only testing on the verb and not the noun!
Our parent/teacher conference consisted of the teacher laying out five pages of spread sheets showing us every test and score our daughter as taken since September and telling us to gloat since our daughter’s ranking in the class is very high. But the teacher was unable to tell us one trait about our daughter as an individual. Apparently Microsoft Excel is king, my child is a set of data, and my husband and I (and our child too?)are odd for seeking more.
Certainly we understand that in this climate the test is important, and certainly there is a minimum required knowledge. But why would you tell a group of children in a gifted magnet not to pursue an idea? Why would you quash it with, “it’s not on the test” and leave it at that.
Our home school had a warm and encouraging environment. I feel we were taken in by the possibilities, the idea of the gifted magnet. This is only our fault, but I would encourage parents to ask a ton of questions before changing schools. We spent a lot of time checking out our home school in advance of kindergarten. We should have done the same with the magnet.
Please examine the gifted magnets with a fine tooth comb as you might your home school. Our home school is lovely. I believe you’ll find us back there, since intellectually she has more of a chance to be creative than at a school who sees test scores as the be all end all of education.
November 17, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Allison — As for HG options, please see my very first post above on San Jose HG Magnet. There is no panacea, and especially for Kindergarten/early years. LAUSD doesn’t really kick in for HG until 2nd grade. There simply aren’t enough identified children to fit that category until older grades.
If San Jose HG Magnet is too far geographically (north valley – Mission Hills), then consider Eagle Rock HG Magnet and/or Multnomah HG Magnet. See the CHOICES Brochure. Mirman is always an option — I’ve heard good and bad, plus the pricetag is hefty. Explore everything and hopefully you’ll find a good fit… not a PERFECT fit, because I don’t think that exists for HG kids… but a good one that meets your priorities (academic vs. social, etc.) GOOD LUCK!
November 17, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Stephanie:
I’m sorry about the disappointing school… that puts a real damper on the year for child and parents alike.
One thought — my DD attended one of the best, highly-rated gifted magnets in the Valley. EVERYBODY wants to get in there, very competitive, blah blah blah. And it is a very good school, BUT… it still has the occasional dud teacher. And as you are finding out, the teacher really makes or breaks the school experience for you.
I would just suggest that maybe the whole gifted magnet isn’t bad because you got a teacher that isn’t progressive. Talk to the principal and say what you said in this forum. Ask about changing your daughter to another teacher for the same grade level (talk to other parents beforehand to find the “good” ones). It is possible that it could make a huge difference…
I say this thinking maybe a classroom move in the same school would be less disruptive to your daughter than a whole school move. I don’t know the specific gifted magnet to which you are referring, etc. Just suggesting you consider this and then, obviously, do what you think will work best for your daughter. If that is the local neighborhood school, then so be it! GOOD LUCK!
November 24, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Hi, my daughter is in Elementary she is attending a school at risk (PI) she is in Magnet and GATE what do you suggest I’m thinking of changing schools in the LA 90039 area! I’m very concerned Thanks
November 25, 2008 at 1:03 am
Talk to your school directly before freaking out over the PI score. Those letters are frightening, but they only tell half the story (or less). Dozens of elementaries and junior highs here in the Valley were designated PI because of a single subgroup (Special Ed). While it’s very important for *all* groups to do well at a given school, it’s important to understand the why. In this case, over several years, it’s become very common to mainstream kids who are more challenged than previously would have been accepted to regular classrooms–and they’re being tested on the same material.
When you know the specifics (and you can actually get a good idea by using the test score breakdown at GreatSchools.net), you can then proceed with deciding IF you want to move or not.
November 25, 2008 at 1:11 am
And I haven’t left yet, so I’m going to go out on a limb. By using 90039 and CA over at GreatSchools, I found a few elementary schools. Flipping to the back page of the Choices brochure, I’m guessing it’s Allesandro. And lo and behold, here’s the test score page, and it is the kids with disabilities subgroup. http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/achievement/ca/1895#api
The school overall has a 788 API which plenty of schools would fight for.
Again, if you really want to move, this will give you an “out” but no guarantee on where your daughter will get to go. On the other hand if you’re happy where you’re at, and your daughter is in GATE and the magnet, then enjoy!
November 25, 2008 at 1:16 am
Welcome Janice (#15)!
First off — you mention the school being PI but is your daughter doing well? Is she happy? Overall school performance isn’t always indicative of how an individual child will do and/or be. For example — there can be seriously funky math at play. API scores for many magnets are lumped into the overall school scores and not separated out… so the magnet/GATE program may have a much higher score than shown for your overall school and be a perfectly fine program. If your magnet is doing okay, teachers are acceptable to you, daughter is challenged and happy, and you don’t see any major program changes in future years for her — life is good.
If you do see bumps in the road ahead, magnet going downhill, lots of staff turnover, etc…. then look around. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the specific schools in your area (other yentas?), but start at echoices.lausd.net and click on the “Magnet School Selection Tool” at the left. You can hunt for gifted or other type of magnets in your nearby area. Then do normal parent research — LAUSD website, greatschools.net, this yenta forum, go on tours, talk to parents, etc. If you find a good match, apply through the CHOICES process. GOOD LUCK!
December 4, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Does anyone have any luck with getting a regular public school (not a gifted magnet) to individualize the curriculum for a gifted child? My son is in kindergarten at our local school (Dixie Canyon) and I love the feel of the community there, not to mention the fact that it is walking distance from our house. But when I see what work they are doing, my heart aches. This is stuff that he learned 2 years ago in his Montessori preschool! He enjoys his friends and the activities but says the schoolwork is “boring” and “easy.” I feel a bit bad keeping him in our local public and making him trace letters when he’s reading chapter books at home, but I don’t know that transfering to a gifted magnet next year (which may not be any better, and involve a much longer commute) would be any better.
December 6, 2008 at 10:04 pm
My son had a great teacher in first grade a dozen years ago. She was willing to teach 19 kids one thing, and my son did his own thing. He went to Balboa in second grade, and that was no longer necessary. My daughter is in a great school, and this year in second grade, we asked the teacher if she can possibly ramp up her work, especially in math (since I can have her read at a much higher level at home, but I don’t want to re-teach math at home). So while they’re learning borrowing and carrying, she’s adding columns of numbers. And while they’re learning combinations of change (25, 50, 75, $1), she’s going to be dealing with more complex combinations of making change.
Another idea that seems to be gaining support again is the possibility of skipping a grade. He’d still keep the same friends, he’d just be in a different class.
Keep in mind, the school year usually does start slowly, and then the teachers start moving–especially in kindergarten when you have kids that didn’t have preschool, and kids who went to all different philosophies of preschool. In addition, I hear all the kids in my daughter’s class say work is “easy” and “boring.”
This is a great subject to bring up with the teacher and gauge her reaction. If you’ve already had your conference, then I’d suggest asking for another one to specifically address this issue.
December 8, 2008 at 5:56 am
Joann:
Angel gives great advice (as usual). I believe Dixie Canyon has an SAS program (gifted clustering) — is your son in SAS? If not, you should ask about moving him to SAS, where teachers are supposed to have additional training in giftedness and be better able to handle gifted kids and your son would be placed with peers. Otherwise, as Angel says, time to sit down with teacher and in a non-confrontational way, suggest that son is bored, did this work two years ago, and how can she/he challenge your son to keep him interested in school?
In several grades my daughter’s teacher, like the ones for Angel’s family, did provide additional work for her to keep her challenged, etc. So much depends on the individual teacher and then the administration’s approach to GATE programs.
I also agree with Angel that Kindergarten takes a long time to “ramp up” to full speed, for the reasons she mentioned; the teacher is feeling out where each child is and what their capabilities are as they come from WIDELY different backgrounds.
So… Ask the teacher to discuss the matter and feel her/him out on philosophy toward gifted education. Ask for his/her proposed solution. Keep gently pushing and take it from there. GOOD LUCK!
December 10, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Rebekka,
my child is eligible for San Jose HG. I have talked to two parents with their kids there, both discouraged me and recommended instead the Balboa. They said the teachers aren’t very impressive and challenge enough. The local school(the regular San Jose) isn’t as safe. Is there any way to hear opinions from other parents at San Jose Highly Gifted? Also do you know the percentage of the kids continue on to the highly gifted middle school (Portola) after graduating from San Jose? Thanks.
December 10, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Steve,
Please go visit the San Jose campus and don’t listen to other parents on the safety issue. While I chose a different school for my son years ago, and haven’t chosen San Jose for my daughter, I get a little weary of the other parents who seem to think everything east of the 405 is the hood. Certainly Balboa is an entire magnet, so every child on campus is gifted or high ability, but I live in San Fernando and actually know families that use open enrollment to go to San Jose’s regular school. I seriously doubt anyone would send their highly gifted kids into a dangerous environment.
December 11, 2008 at 3:24 am
Steve:
Ask three parents their opinion about a school, get three answers… I agree with Angel; if you really want to evaluate a school, you MUST go check it out yourself. Every family and every child has different needs, expectations, and philosophies.
What I can tell you is that my daughter was at Balboa before San Jose; it was a tortuous decision whether to move her or not but we did and she’s now happier than she’s ever been. Another family moved their daughter from Balboa this year and they, too, are very happy– the mom just told me she almost cried telling the principal how much of a difference they’d seen in their daughter. As for academics, San Jose’s 2007 API score was a perfect 1,000 and the kids are doing a grade level ahead in math, as well as in-depth research and analysis work in other subjects. More importantly to us than academics (I can pay to enrich any LAUSD curriculum), our daughter isn’t bored silly and has peers to interact with.
Is San Jose a panacea or for everybody? No way! And no way is any other school around (no matter what the hype). I talk about San Jose not because I think it is the be all, end all of schools, but because I want people to know it exists (so many don’t) and that they have another option to explore for their child — and there aren’t many options for HG kids! The more options to explore, the better the chance you will find the right one for you. Balboa is a great school for the right type of kid… San Jose is also a great school for the right type of kid, etc etc.
So to answer your question — call the San Jose Office and ask for a list of parents who have volunteered to talk to prospective families. They can give you contact info.
As to graduation on to Portola — I was told that of last year’s graduating class of 15 fifth graders at San Jose Magnet, all but two enrolled at Portola and the other two went to Walter Reed IHP. So yes, the majority go on to Portola.
Hope that helps! Good luck in finding the right fit for your family.
Rebekka
December 11, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Thank you Angel and Rebekka. My wife actually did a tour at San Jose. But you could imagine this kind of short visit in the HG classes doesn’t produce much detailed information.
The two parents I mentioned earlier, one of them complained about the problem of frequent bullying at school(not inside the HG classes), another one about the imbalanced boy to girl ratio. I also read some comments at this site: http://www.greatschools.net/school/parentReviews.page?id=2369&state=CA&sortBy=dd&pager.offset=0
It’s a hard decision to make. As smart as they are, in terms of academics, all these kids should perform excellently. Yet, does the school really meet the individualized special needs for these highly gifted children? That’s our main concern and needed an assurance for.
December 11, 2008 at 5:01 pm
I wish I could answer that for you, Steve, but I can’t. First off, NO LAUSD school is going to provide truly individualized attention to your child. They have 20-30 kids in a classroom and do the best they can. Special programs like ours have enriched curriculum, etc. and teachers provide extra classwork for individual students. If you are seeking a school that will accelerate as fast as your child can go, I have yet to see such a program in LAUSD.
Again, each child/family is different so you have to figure out what is most important to you and your child. Yes, our kids will do well anywhere academically — and we can enrich what LAUSD provides to pay outside for whatever else they need academically. But at schools previously, our child suffered greatly from the lack of peers who “get” her. Now she is so happy because the kids “speak the same language” as her and she can relax and be herself and actually enjoy her education and not worry about sticking out in the crowd… and being bullied for it.
Is there minor bullying at San Jose? Sure. Same at our last school. And every school. Mean kids are everywhere. Our job as parents is to train our kids how to handle it.
Think about your priorities, gather your data and opinions, and then go with your gut and pick the school that you like best. That’s all you can do! I applaud you for exploring your options. Good luck.
December 11, 2008 at 5:07 pm
P.S. As for the boy/girl ratio… agree it is an issue. But that really speaks to the problems of gifted testing more than anything — girls don’t get picked for early testing and fly under the radar because they tend to be more quiet, etc. As to whether the ratio is a “problem” at school, again, so much depends on your child’s temperament… it hasn’t been a problem for my tomboy but I can see that it might for other temperaments.
December 11, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Just found this thread by google. My daughter wasn’t identified as highly gifted, but her IQ result met the criteria to enroll at this HG school. Should we apply? Will she be guranteed later for Portola despite her status not actually marked as ‘highly gifted’? Or she will have lower priority? Any input would be appreciated.
December 12, 2008 at 4:52 am
Hi Chun!
First off — is your daughter happy? Are you happy with her education where she is? If so, then don’t move just to move! There are a lot of HG (99.9%+) and HG Applicable (99.5%+) kids in non-HG schools all over the LAUSD. Go where the fit is right for your family! If, however, you are unhappy and looking to move, then sure, check out everything you can apply to. Why not? The more options you explore, the better chance of finding the right fit.
As to Portola, there is no guarantee for anyone, HG or HG Applicable. It is an LAUSD magnet program so you apply and hope! But in answer to your question, the CHOICES brochure states for all Highly Gifted magnets that: “Priority will be given to highly gifted students (scoring 99.9%); however, students scoring at 99.5% and above on an LAUSD intellectual assessment may be accepted based on seat availability.” So yes, HG kids would get priority.
I just attended the tour at Portola and the Magnet Coordinator there confirmed this, stating that, because the magnet was established for HG kids, yes, they take everyone who is HG first and open up any remaining slots (if any) to HG Applicable.
Hope that helps! Good luck!
Rebekka
December 15, 2008 at 12:24 am
I pulled my hg daughter out of the San Jose hg program two years ago. The boy-girl ratio, the teacher’s refusal to differentiate the curriculum (which she told the children) for the two 2nd-graders that were in the 2-3 combo class at the time, the safety (she and my husband were nearly run down on the sidewalk right outside of the school by some guy on a pocket bike, and then another incident where our car almost got crashed into outside of the campus), and the financial hit of a $350/kid donation request to the booster club to pay for my daughter’s “free” education were all instrumental in pulling her out. Before we enrolled, the principal at the time told me that “all children who end up here thrive”, but two days before classes started I learned that a 4th-grader in the hg program from the prior school year was not promoted to the 5th grade (with the blessing of the parents). (When I spoke to the new coordinator last fall about my younger son, also hg, she told me that the new plan for the few 2nd-graders in the program is to send them to RESIDENT SCHOOL classrooms for language arts and math! What kind of nonsense is that!) Since we left San Jose, my dd has been in one of the few SAS programs in the District (Dearborn) that still has a large % of its teachers involved in the Dr. Sandra Kaplan Javits grant work. Those lessons more so than anything else I have seen my dd experience at school are where she is really shining. She is learning to really think outside of the box, which as far as I’m concerned, is far more imporant than being one year ahead in math. As for middle school next year, we’re not doing a gifted or highly gifted magnet OR an SAS program. Right now it’s about making sure she’s in a program where she can pursue her passions (humanities), and will stay engaged and excited about being a learner, not just about that pesky moniker, wrought with all of its sometimes not-so-socially-tolerated emotional baggage: “highly gifted”.
December 15, 2008 at 12:49 am
Correction to prior post — I pulled my dd out of San Jose in October, 2005 (3 years ago).
December 15, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Hi Nichole,
You’ve learned the hard way that there’s not a one-size fit all approach to education in LAUSD. My son got accepted into a highly-regarded elementary school through open enrollment, and it was an awful fit for him. It took us three schools, and in second grade he was at Balboa and for him it was a good school (not perfect).
Fast forward eleven years, and my daughter was in a very nice elementary school for kindergarten when she was accepted to Balboa. We very quickly decided to turn them down. Where she is, how happy she is, and the school’s ability to differentiate for her are all keys to us keeping her where she’s thriving rather than where she’s eligible to go.
I’m glad to hear you’ve found somewhere for your child to thrive as well.
In regard to traffic safety at school, hardly a week goes by that I’m not almost run over in the crosswalk, and, I’m not aware of (m)any schools that don’t ask for yearly donations (my daughter’s school started this year with the annual fund drive). From my experience, these are common complaints at most schools, so I’d hardly hold that against a single school.
We said it last night at the Magnets & Martinis and we’ll be saying it for years to come, you need to be the best advocate for your child(ren) and find the school that best meets the needs of your kid(s). It’s not easy, and that’s why the Yentas are here. We’re offering some advice, but it’s free, so take it with a grain of salt.
Happy holidays!
December 17, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Nichole:
I’m becoming a total broken record here — NO SCHOOL FITS EVERYONE. NO SCHOOL IS PERFECT. I’m sorry San Jose didn’t work for your family. It is no panacea and nobody has said it is (I won’t!). I point it out above simply as another OPTION for people to know about, because the vast majority of people don’t even know the school exists (I still get blank stares when I mention the name). It worked for us but it WILL NOT work for everyone. We are all big people and everybody has to be responsible to evaluate each school for their own family’s philosophies, child’s needs, child’s temperament, etc. Weigh the info, look at the place, and make a decision to enroll or not. If a school doesn’t work for your child, move them. I have. You have. As good moms, we did what was best for our children and life goes on.
The good news is that we even HAVE options in this megalopolis. The point of this blog is to explore them and try to help people identify options to examine. At least we have choices! Where I grew up (in the boonies) there was one school (public) and you went there. End of story. Unless you wanted to drive an hour to a private school in the neighboring community, that was it. So we all need to be thankful we have so many options to explore and access here.
Some of my closest, dearest friends and I have VASTLY different approaches to education. That’s okay. Different strokes for different folks. Schools also change greatly in just a few years. I posted about San Jose above just to let people know it exists. My child is leaving there this year so I have no horse in the race (other than trying to ensure a highly gifted track continues to exist at LAUSD), I don’t get paid for people going to San Jose and don’t care if you choose public school, home school, private school, charter school, or aboriginal mouth sounds school –DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOUR CHILD. End of story.
December 19, 2008 at 5:58 am
Steve,
I hope you found it helpful to hear about my experience at San Jose — your request to hear from other parents was the reason why I shared my story. I think you are smart enough to decide for yourself not only what type of academic program, but also what type of school culture (which includes the “VASTLY different” personality types of the booster club parents) is the best fit for your child and family. Keep doing your homework — as you have already discovered, greatschools.net is a great place to hear the things the booster club parents, principals, and magnet coordinators won’t dare tell you on the tours.
January 8, 2009 at 6:03 am
Hi – was wondering if anyone could weigh in on whether or not it is worth the time/cash to attend the CA Assoc for Gifted conference this Saturday in Pasadena (Jan 10, 2009). I’m a parent of two elementary school age HG kids, neither of whom I have enrolled in HG programs, as we’ve had our fair share of bad testing experiences/bad magnet coordinator advice/etc. At this stage of the game, we’ve settled at a wonderful neighborhood LAUSD school, but the middle school question looms. Any thoughts?
January 9, 2009 at 5:50 am
Hi Suzi,
I can’t tell you whether it’s worth going to it or not. It sounds like you’re at least happy where you’re at.
I know some of the LAUSD gifted seminars charged, and in the 13 years my son was a student, I never went. My daughter has another 10 years, and I’m not planning on going.
I suppose if it were free, and it wasn’t going to be over a weekend, I’d want to know more and I might consider it. But probably not.
January 13, 2009 at 10:29 pm
I’ve never attend either, Suzi. Sorry I can’t provide more insight!
February 11, 2009 at 12:58 am
I just received word that my 2nd grader was not accepted into her school’s GATE program. I was confused after speaking with our Magnet coordinator, as she informed me that RAVEN test results were the largest factor in my child’s non-acceptance, but also said that other factors went into the decision making process as well. Overall, her answers were vague and somewhat evasive. How do I go about getting the most complete picture of what criterion was—and was not—met by my child regarding admission into this program? Do we have any options regarding re-testing and/or re-consideration, or do we have to wait another year or two?
February 11, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Hi Mike. Unfortunately, clarity of information — especially about gifted testing — isn’t an LAUSD strongpoint. As far as I know (and I am open to hear from others here with more info), the only criterion for GATE entry if your child was formally tested (as yours was) is test score. S/he either makes the cutoff score or not.
I am surprised to hear your magnet coordinator suggest that other factors went into the decision; perhaps in true “borderline” cases under advisement with the teacher they will go ahead and identify anyway? I haven’t heard that but wouldn’t be surprised if that were the reality. At the very least, don’t be shy. I’d suggest you call up the magnet coordinator and ask again, “Sorry, I’m confused, on what criteria do you base your decision?” You are entitled to ask again and be told so that you get a clear answer.
Did your child’s teacher request the testing or did you directly? If the teacher requested, I would talk to her/him about it. If you both agree that the test results seem off-base (heck, everybody has a bad day!) then you should request retesting in writing at the school office. Read my warnings on that above in this forum and recognize it can take a long while to occur… and isn’t always a given. The school has the right to deny retesting. In these tight budget times, I would guess it would get harder but it depends on the school.
And… fear not, testing isn’t your only hope. Children can also be identified into GATE by either being high achieving (test scores + grades) and/or auditioning with specific talents in visual or performing arts. So if perhaps testing doesn’t work out, there are other avenues to take on your journey.
Good luck!
February 11, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Perhaps the additional factors are the other ways to identify “gifted/high ability” that include scaled test scores from standardized testing in the spring. Since she hasn’t had those yet, she can’t be considered for the program yet. And there are the four criteria that a teacher can say she meets to be identified as “high ability” and get into the program.
My first suggestion is to ask for a sit down with the Magnet Coordinator AND her teacher and ask for clarification. And read the LAUSD gifted site until it starts to make some sense (I’m still figuring it out): http://sfpc.lausd.k12.ca.us/GATE/intro-2.html
Good luck!
February 11, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Hi, me again!
I talked to a veteran mom (thanks SoCalGal!) who offered the following:
Here’s how he can get this info: under FERPA, he can request access to all of his daughter’s records – including the actual Raven test protocols and everything else that was used to make the decision. And they have to make this available to him within 5 business days. They won’t be used to a magnet parent using FERPA in this manner but it is both state and federal law – the school has no choice. Every single item, including electronic records that can be identified with his child is considered an educational record and he has the right to see it.
March 2, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Hi,
You’ve mentioned that “three-track” schools are the overcrowded ones. My daughter’s local elementary school is “four-track.” What does that mean? Is it overcrowded as well?
Thanks!
March 2, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Hi Rebekah,
Three track schools have an A, B, and C track. They’re holdovers from a calendar called “Concept 6″ and essentially made each day longer to squeeze 180 days into 163 classroom days. They are now considered less desirable. When my son attended one, they went two months on, one month off).
Four track schools are A, B, C, and D, and contain the full 180 days that the district desires children to attend(four months on, two off, four on, two off).
While any year-round school is overcrowded in the sense they don’t have enough class space for the students who need to attend that school, by LAUSD magnet standards, only three-track schools get overcrowded points at this point.
March 2, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Rebekah (nice name!):
Yes, four-track schools are also overcrowded. “The four-track calendar is aligned with the Board’s desire to provide students with the maximum number of school days as possible given the District’s lack of classroom space;” Also…
“More than 141 schools use one of two different year-round calendars either three-track or four-track — to accommodate heavy enrollment at those sites. Year-round calendars begin in early July. Students attend have vacation time on staggered tracks throughout the year.” (from LAUSD’s 2007-08 Fingertip Fact Sheet)
Anything other than a single-track means that the school has more students than can fit into classrooms during a single school year… so they stagger enrollment over time to make more space. I hope that makes sense.
If you are asking whether your child’s school will get points for overcrowing in the CHOICES application process, then my guess is yes, but I would ask the school directly: “Are you designated as overcrowded by LAUSD?”
Hope that helps.
March 2, 2009 at 9:47 pm
I just see Angel’s response now… thanks on the points clarification, Angel!
March 2, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Thanks for the clarification! Another question: what is the difference between the magnet themes “gifted & high ability” and “highly gifted?”
March 4, 2009 at 8:30 pm
I have twins fitting both designations. Highly gifted applies to those that have been tested, scoring 99.9 per cent correct on the Raven’s Matrix test. These kids are usually in the IQ range of 150 or above, and they can still fail miserably if not supported properly. I am not sure of the score required for gifted on Raven’s Matrix as it is not specified, but high ability means just that. The child could be on track for Olympic ice skating, or they could be an opera singer, or they could be an incredible visual artist or storyteller, or they could be completely devoted to chemistry, or they could be performing algebra and trigonometry in 3rd grade. This covers kids who might not score overall gifted, but clearly have skills related to a passionate pursuit.
Also note that LAUSD will generally rely on the Raven’s Matrix score because it is a language free test, but a more “verbal” test can sometimes be requested. I think it is the WHISKAR??? Anyone know?
March 5, 2009 at 12:58 am
My son tested so long ago they used another test that was language based. So I was beyond cheesed to find out they now use the Raven and my daughter did fine on it, but had they used a verbal test (since she is a verbal creature), she would have blown it out of the water. We’re not looking at Portola or North Hollywood in our future, so it wasn’t exactly a blow, but it’s good to know we can ask for another test. However given the budget, there’s no way I’m going to ask her to be retested when there are kids on the list still waiting to be designated.
Regarding “high ability,” it is specifically school-work ability related when used by LAUSD. High Ability kids miss the designation for “gifted” but they actually do “hang” with the gifted kids testwise. So they miss by a few points, but they get the benefits of the educational process and they definitely are an asset to any class.
March 9, 2009 at 11:20 pm
My 2nd grader took the Raven test this year and did not get into her school’s GATE program which begins in 3rd grade. I got the test results back this week, and found that she missed getting into the program by just 3 percentage points. I am going to ask the district for a re-test but I’ve been told by her school’s GATE coordinator that retests are virutally impossible to get. Is this true? Is there any particular reasoning to give that can help (or hurt) the cause? Also, I know she’d do better with a verbal test, how does one go about reqeusting it instead of written one?
March 9, 2009 at 11:46 pm
Mike – You have to get someone on your side, usually the Gate coordinator at your site, or the school psychologist, and/or your child’s teacher. The teacher can make the case to the GATE coordinator or psychologist that backs up your instincts for a verbal test. I have also been told that if the child scores high on the California Standards test 2 or 3 years in a row, this can also help you get the “orange folder.” So if she has high verbal test scores, this may eventually apply. Don’t have any experience, though, with this later hearsay.
March 13, 2009 at 6:41 am
Mike,
Definitely talk to the coordinator at the school about the standardized test option. Schools are very reluctant to re-test. First simply the cost of testing, and re-testing keeps another child from being tested in the first place. Plenty of kids get identified through the standardized test route.
Here’s more about the ways they identify: http://sfpc.lausd.k12.ca.us/GATE/intro-2.html
April 9, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Peggy,
In belated answer to your question above, LAUSD Psych Services can choose from a variety of IQ tests to use for each individual child. The two most commonly used are the Raven (usually for the younger children) as you’ve mentioned and the WISC IV (previously WISC III) which stands for “Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children” (version four/IV). Raven is more visual/spatial and WISC more verbal. There are other test options as well but they seem to be less frequently used. From what I’ve heard, those two are the most common. Hope that helps!
April 20, 2009 at 3:54 am
My daughter is in 1st grade at her home school. I toured San Jose Magnet last fall, and it was very impressive. My idea was to apply there if my daughter’s 2nd grade standardized test scores meet the criteria for highly gifted. But it just occurred to me that those tests may not be administered to 2nd graders until spring, and magnet applications are due in January. So my options are to request testing early in fall of 2009 (or earlier?) or to wait another year and try to get her in San Jose for 4th grade if she is eligible. Is it unusual for students to start there as late as 4th grade?
April 23, 2009 at 3:09 am
Hi Delia! Thanks for posting.
One thing — standardized test scores don’t count for the highly gifted criteria; only IQ testing performed by the LAUSD Psychological Services Branch (psychologists) does. Just want to make sure we are talking about the right thing! But yes, you need to request earlier rather than later; there is often a long wait (up to six months, I’ve heard a year for some, others in a few weeks) so plan ahead just in case. I would ask now. Submit a request in writing to your school that you want your child IQ tested. You can tell them you want her tested this year or fall semester of next and at least get the ball rolling. That way you’ll have results back in time for the early January CHOICES application deadline.
As for entering in fourth grade at San Jose, it is not unusual at all. Fewer kids enter in fourth than in third, but it happens all the time. My own daughter started in fourth. Several new children started this year. We had several start in fifth this year.
Please see my note below on San Jose, FYI…
Good luck!
April 23, 2009 at 3:15 am
FYI to those interested in San Jose HG Magnet:
The District informed the principal yesterday that, due to the budget crisis, the “plan” right now for next year is to cut one of the three HG Magnet classes which would leave two classrooms: a 3/4 grade split and a 5th grade (currently there are three rooms, 2/3 split, 4th and 5th). This means there would be no second grade at all anymore at the magnet and LAUSD would offer very few (if any) options to highly gifted children before third grade. I am sure other magnets will also be impacted (if you know of some, please share here).
Parents who are concerned should write to Student Integration Services at LAUSD. Please feel free to contact me at the email above for more information. Nothing is finalized but that’s the latest on the grapevine…
Rebekka
April 30, 2009 at 11:35 pm
This is a great discussion and vey helpful. We have an HG+ son that attends Mirman, unforunatly thier is nothing in our arae public or private. We live about 1 hour drive south. So we now drive. It is unfortunate that smaller disricts with 20K to 40k students have nothing for the HG children. I only wish that a local district could come up with an in school magnet that was open to multipul districts to help fill the gap.
May 8, 2009 at 4:05 am
Good news! We received word today (5/7) that the cuts to San Jose will NOT happen and we will retain our three classrooms and second grade spots. We are hopeful that this will “stick” but with things changing daily, who knows?
July 30, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Any one have experience at the high school level at SOCES for a highly gifted kid? My son would have to leave a good middle school program and the only reason to do so would be to secure high school. Unfortunately, school is not in session now, so we are unable to tour the high school.
No specific experience at SOCES, but based on what I know about that program and the comparable program at LACES, you need to understand that they are not specifically designed for highly gifted. They have a good reputation because of the overall quality and success of their student bodies (in large part due to raised expectations), but that doesn’t automatically translate to challenging students at the top. If you have access to North Hollywood’s highly gifted program for high school because of your son’s classification (or to even a very good SAS program), he may be happier there. Plus, the knock against SOCES and LACES is that they pay a bit less attention to the middle school-age kids because their focus is on the high school in the 6-12 setting.
October 4, 2009 at 9:14 am
My daughter is in 8th grade. She tested for hg with the WISC testing in 7th grade and did not score as hg. I am a little disappointed because she was identified as hg in 1st grade with the standford benet test. Is one test more accurate than the other? Are there any other tests that is acceptable for the hg program? Currently she is attending a private school and is planning to transfer to public school. We were considering North Hollywood hg but now that is out of the picture. We live in Reseda and is now cosidering to move to El Camino High School district. Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks
October 27, 2009 at 12:33 am
Yun:
There are endless arguments about which test is more accurate and no real answer.
My question is, has your DD been tested by LAUSD? If not, you should request testing through the local school as they don’t usually accept outside test results.
To be eligible for an HG magnet a child must score 99.5% or above.
I would suggest you apply for a good magnet based upon her scores and then also to any and all open enrollment and SAS programs in “good” high schools that you like the spring before enrollment.
Good luck!
October 25, 2009 at 7:34 pm
How does one know if they are eligible for a highly gifted magnet? I do not see any percentile score on paperwork that was sent home.
Thanks for all your answers.
October 27, 2009 at 12:27 am
Just as an additional note — a year ago they allowed children with a score of 99.5% and above (“HG applicable students”) to apply to HG magnet as well as HG students (99.9% and above).
So to be eligible for an HG magnet, your child needs to score 99.5% or above on an LAUSD IQ test. However, HG kids (99.9% and above) get first priority for seats.
Hope that helps.
November 4, 2009 at 6:12 am
Where do you find out the percentile ranking? I have the paperwork in front of me and do not see any percentages.
November 15, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Judy:
Your child was tested by Psych Services branch of LAUSD? It should be there but if not, call your local LAUSD District office (District 1, 2, 3, etc.) and talk to their psychologist people. They can help you find out.
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October 9, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Just wanted to share a secret option many parents don’t know about — San Jose Highly Gifted Magnet Elementary. We are a wonderful magnet for children testing highly gifted (99.9%+) or highly gifted applicable (99.5%+) on LAUSD psychological tests. We have specially trained and experienced teachers and a small community of 74 students (currently). Our children are challenged through in-depth discussion and research and accelerated curriculum. Though not a panacea, our school offers an affordable alternative for highly gifted students who can’t afford Mirman or other pricey private options. The Booster Club provides enrichment programs to round out the LAUSD curriculum such as Will Geer Theatricum Botanicum directed Shakespeare performances, hands-on Quest In Science experiments, MUV dance and yoga, additional phys. ed., and more. We are located in Mission Hills at the intersection of the 118 and 405 freeways in the North Valley. Most of our students continue on the LAUSD Highly Gifted track and move together to Portola Middle School HG Magnet. Take a peek and visit us! http://www.highlygiftedmagnet.com
Last year, the school was basically in a downward spiral — we had 41 students for four grades — and LAUSD was threatening to shut down the HG magnets. We are frustrated that 1) the LAUSD didn’t market the program to HG students (nobody knows about us!), 2) they don’t break out our test scores like they do for school-wide magnets (so while ours was a perfect 1000 in 2007, the website shows 800… total school’s), and 3) the LAUSD doesn’t care about highly gifted kids, who you would think they’d want to show off as examples of what an LAUSD public education can still do. Our school definitely has its share of frustrations, but it is at least an affordable alternative to spending $25,000 a year at Mirman.
This past year, in typical LAUSD fashion, rather than fixing the problem of not marketing its own HG program, LAUSD simply lowered the bar for entry… from 99.9% to 99.5% testing. It did help us to boost enrollment and almost double in size and doesn’t materially affect the program, so we are thankful to still have the magnet going. But it drives me nuts that I know there are parents out there with highly gifted kids who don’t have deep pockets and don’t know we are an option for them! Anything you can do to pass the word would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!!!!
Rebekka Hosken, President
San Jose Magnet Booster Club
rhosken@socal.rr.com
June 28, 2009 at 11:24 pm
I wanted to weigh in here about the school these highly gifted students may ultimately attend. The Highly Gifted Magnet (HGM) at North Hollywood High School is one option for these students to seriously consider. I say ‘these students’ because, parents, by the time they are in 8th grade they will, and should, have a strong opinion about where they would like to go to high school. Just because they have the HG designation, they may have an overwhelming need to attend LACSA, or another school with, for example, a particularly strong track and field team. Listen to them, and do take them to all the open houses, but insist that the HGM be one of the visits. Because this is an option available to so few, those few are obligated to consider it. Like every other LAUSD school. the HGM has incurred cuts and is operating on a thin and threadbare shoestring, but you would never know it from the results. 70% of the graduating seniors are either National Merit Scholar Semi-finalists or Commended Scholars, and the National Science Bowl, California Literary and Prologue Society, Mock Trial, Gates and Millenium Scholar, Duke Moot Court and an ever-lengthening list of other awards grows every year. Both of my boys actually started at a small private school in Hollywood that claimed diversity – but please, this school really is diverse, and these kids learn the greater lessons of how to get along in the world. The kids that I observed who spent their entire academic lives in private schools simply are not as equipped to navigate the social, economic, and emotional challenges that lie ahead. Quite simply, our job as parents is to prepare our children to live independently. This particular program, the HGM at NHHS, is giving students an amazing academic and social experience that the private schools cannot, bu their very nature, provide.
And, from my own experience, I found that the Magnet choices for middle school may not always be the best fit for the HG student. Walter Reed Middle School’s IHP (Individual Honors Program) prepared my son very well for the HGM, and it also had the musical programs he wanted. The fact that there is not a bus to the school is a surmountable problem, as they facilitate carpools. So just because you don’t have a zillion magnet points, there are still some very viable options. The SAS (School for Advanced Studies) at Reed also folds into the SAS program at NHHS, too. This is a college preparatory program that some Gifted and Highly Gifted students choose, but does not require a test score.
I think Rebekka may have mentioned this, but I’d like to reiterate that you don’t prepare your child for the HG programs – in my very personal observation, early mandatory immersion in some of those math and english extra study programs can lead to a loss of the joy of learning. Instead, go to the museums, the library – and the park! Be a reader yourself. Cook together, and let them do the measuring. Be open to who your child is – an individual with interests and talents of their own.
~Susan Proffitt
President
Friends of the HGM, Inc.
October 23, 2009 at 8:35 am
Hi!
I am considering having my daughter attend Portola Middle School HGM. My only concern is the 1 1/2 hour commute each way. Is that a long time for a student to be on the bus? Also, by the time she gets home, will she have enough time to get her homework done and have time for extracurricular activities? Basically, is the curriculum that much better than, say, Porter Middle School’s gifted magnet?
Thanks,
Alice
October 23, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Hi Alice! My child goes to Portola Magnet now. In terms of curriculum, it is always SO hard to answer those questions… but the specific curriculum is on the website at http://www.portolams.org under “Magnet” menu at top, then look for menu at right “Magnet Curriculum.” In this way you can compare for yourself with Porter’s curriculum (with which I’m unfamiliar).
Besides the curriculum itself, things to consider include teacher quality and peer relationships. If your child has friends and is doing fine in a gifted magnet, then why fix what isn’t broken? If s/he has trouble relating to peers and needs more stimulation, then perhaps it is time to move and the positives would outweigh the negative of changing schools and a long commute.
As for transportation, most of the parents I know at Portola either do a carpool or use the bus. The Magnet does put out a carpool directory so, depending on where you live, it might be possible to reduce the commute time for your child and lessen the number of trips you need to make as a parent. If you want to email me privately with your location, I can let you know if there are families there now in your area.
You have to decide priorities for yourself but 1.5 hours each way does seem like a LOT of time to me. The homework load is fairly heavy and does take time. If you have a child that could work while on the bus, it might work.
As with all things, tour the school, ask other parents, and decide what is best for your child/family. Good luck!